Shadow Form solution?

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Shadow Form solution?

Post by SAL on Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:03 pm

Since it's obviously become the new Ursan equivalent, Shadow Form obviously needs a nerf in PvE of some sort. The developers have claimed they're looking into doing this already, but as many people know who have been with Guild Wars a long time, the developers can be slow and/or lazy about skill changes like this (especially for PvE). I think that how to fix it could actually involve a fairly simple change though, that I feel would be a very effective way towards stopping the problems associated with it in the PvE game.

Here's how the skill reads now:
Energy Cost = 10
Casting Time = 1
Recharge Time = 45
Elite Enchantment Spell. For 5...18...21 seconds, all hostile Spells that target you fail and all attacks against you miss, but you deal 33% less damage. When Shadow Form ends, lose all but 5...41...50 Health.

Here's how I think it should be to fix it's problems:
Energy Cost = 10
Casting Time = 1
Recharge Time = 30
Elite Enchantment Spell. For 5...18...21 seconds, all hostile Spells that target you fail and all attacks against you miss, but you deal 33% less damage. When Shadow Form ends, lose all but 5...41...50 Health. You cannot activate Shadow Form while enchanted with Shadow Form.

What do you all think?

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Re: Shadow Form solution?

Post by Valynn Lionhart on Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:08 pm

I think it would be a good fix, though I know people who like it will be disappointed. I remember when they took away the 25 or so minions people could make. That stank, but hey you move on and find something else fun. Smile

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Re: Shadow Form solution?

Post by AxelofMetropolis on Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:49 pm

I agree with Scott, the build is ridiculously overused and I ended up deleting my sin
A. because I could use most the same builds on my dagger ranger, and
B. I could never get into HM groups for anything cus I can't perma (no EotN=no GoS)

Nornway also bothered me before that was nerfed. I think everything should be equal and that no one profession should be more used than any other.
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Re: Shadow Form solution?

Post by Valynn Lionhart on Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:11 pm

AxelofMetropolis wrote:Nornway also bothered me before that was nerfed. I think everything should be equal and that no one profession should be more used than any other.

I totally agree, Alex.

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Re: Shadow Form solution?

Post by Fink Dixel on Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:52 pm

I don't like Shadow Form but I will have to disagree. I think it's stupid to Nerf skills to the point they are rather useless. Shadow Form Assassins don't effect me any really, I just view the old Ursan users now as just Casual players, not so good with things but like to play, I have to admit, it was fairly easy getting groups for missions even though I was not an Ursan.

Here's an Idea, Nerf every skill in the Game so no one can farm.

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Re: Shadow Form solution?

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:56 pm

I think I love my shawdowform sin and it is a blast to do sinway uwsc and I will do so until and if they nerf the skill. It is still quite a challenge to succeed even though shadow form is so powerful.

I really don't see why this is such a beef for you all- if you don't like it don't use it. But why be so upset at us who love it? It seems like your main beef is it is exclusive- but I don;t think so if it is something I do some of the time with some of the guild members. AND we are willing to teach ANYONE who WANTS to learn this so it is NOT exclusive. Finally, I am willing to do other forms of UW than just sinway or whatever you want to call it. I really do not udnerstand why the moon philosophy has to restrict me from doing things I love to do some of the time- that seems like you are hindering this guild from having a variety of memebrs with different likes and dislikes- so to me you are being exclusive not me.

I also think they should not nerf the skill for PVE- they already did for PVP by increasing recharge- I think it provides an interesting thing to do in PVE and I really don't see how it ruins the game in any way. In fact, the rit way speed clear Eden wants to do Saturday will benefit in a great way from the guilds 4 shadowform sins so if anything this will increase the fun our guild has and I for one am not doing this all the time- read my post about how I enjoy many things not just one thing.

I do not criticize other peoples builds or preferences EVER so I would really appreciate it if you would respect my desire to do shadowform uwscs SOME of the time so long as I am still active with the guild and don't do that all the time. I have created friendships withing the guild with Topaz teaching me how to do this already along with Kenny and Japin as well as I have plans to invlove AMI doing Vale with me on her necro Nikita and if anything shadowform has improved my guild wars experimence tremedously.

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Re: Shadow Form solution?

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:57 pm

Adam Chill, and talk to me, I have no problem with Shadow Form personally, but each to there own opinion

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Re: Shadow Form solution?

Post by AxelofMetropolis on Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:00 pm

I didn't mean to offend you, and it isn't just permashadow form that I hate. I dislike any build or group type that is exclusive, and I know shadow form is NOT exclusive. I don't have EotN (like I said earlier) so I can't make a lot of builds, and the ones I can't make always seem to be the ones that everyone likes to use. I would LOVE to have you in a group ANY day as a perma if you made my guild wars experience more fun (which you have before in the UW). But what I hate is when other people don't let you in a group solely because you can't make the build they want. I can't tell you how many groups I was kicked out of on my sin because I couldn't perma.
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Re: Shadow Form solution?

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:13 pm

Thanks for the kind words Nick, and I totally understand how you feel- thanks again.

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Re: Shadow Form solution?

Post by AxelofMetropolis on Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:21 pm

I'm Alex Razz
I love having similar names to Nick >_<
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Re: Shadow Form solution?

Post by Valynn Lionhart on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:55 pm

Scott and I have held this opinion of shadow form long before we even had this guild. This post was not directed at anyone. It was directed at a skill that we've felt was broken long before we even knew most of you. I do not appreciate this post being turned into an opportunity for drama.

Everyone is allowed to voice their opinions. Some people have expressed a distaste for my favorite ritualist build, yet I don't cause drama and fighting with any of them. People can like or dislike what they want. If you're in Moon the key is accommodation.

I never thought I would have to consider making a rule out of common sense.... If your guildies want to do something with you, BUT THEY DON'T WANT TO USE THE BUILD YOU REQUIRE THEM TO LEARN/HAVE, AND YOU WON'T LET THEM COME OTHERWISE, that is exclusive and restrictive, period. There is no other way to look at it. Kraig, It is like you're saying, "Hey we'll bend over backward to teach you this build so you can come with us, but if you don't want to use it, so sorry we can't help you." Wow, if I was like that I wouldn't know half the good people I know in this game. As a matter of fact, I probably wouldn't know you, Kraig. Sure you like to Speed Clear the Underworld from time to time, and if guildies want to come but not use the specified PvX build, to hell with them. That is what it seems like. Well, that isn't really a good attitude to have toward guildies and I do NOT appreciate it one bit.

I like to beat The Deep in 45 minutes, but I make concessions for guildies that don't know it and want to learn it. I make concessions to go slower so I can teach them, and I make concessions for them to bring builds I normally wouldn't want for The Deep. That is what this guild is about. Comradery, ACCOMMODATION, fairness, and inclusion.

Please do not continue this line of discussion in this thread. Pm the person personally with anything you want to say on the matter. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

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Re: Shadow Form solution?

Post by Fink Dixel on Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:48 pm

Yeah, Topic locked I know.

However I wanted you all to know that I like Toast.

Would it perhaps be better to delete the topic?

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Re: Shadow Form solution?

Post by Valynn Lionhart on Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:31 pm

that's fine, Scott will re post it at a later time probably anyway.

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Re: Shadow Form solution?

Post by Guest on Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:55 pm

You shouldnt delete threads:P They possess a good learning experience:P

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Re: Shadow Form solution?

Post by Fink Dixel on Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:32 pm

This thread really doesn't offer anything that isn't known, in the way of Rules.

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Re: Shadow Form solution?

Post by SAL on Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:01 pm

So anyway, here's my thoughts on the skill, and why I specifically suggested the change to it above.

If you notice, I've actually reduced the recharge time on the skill, from 45 to 30. This buff would make Shadow Form much easier to maintain, and eliminate the need for some of the extra skills that are now required to get the recharge and duration to synchronize with each other. This in turn would make Shadow Forming easier on energy overall. And if that's not enough, I think the skill's duration could even be buffed to cap at around 26-30 seconds instead of 21, to make it potentially maintainable without any extra skills at all.

The additional qualification that I've added to the skill though, of it not being able to activate while enchanted with it, would force you to take the health cut after each time you use it. But additionally, and more importantly, this would give you a necessary ~1 second that you wouldn't have Shadow Form active each time in-between recasting it, requiring much more skill in using it. Specifically, you'd have to make sure you could survive for 1 second without it after each time you used it.

So overall, this change would actually make Shadow Form easier to maintain, but require more skill in using it, and also balance the skill out more. Seems like a win-win scenario to me.

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Re: Shadow Form solution?

Post by Guest on Sun Dec 27, 2009 6:41 am

The next major skill update "will include big changes to Shadow Form and may also include changes to other prominent farming skills." Very Happy

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